BITCOIN Discussion..........

[rolandcorts]

ETH/SOL/ADA types will run the world with smart contracts. They'll be used in gaming. Smart contracts will run everything financially. There are thousand of Dapps right now. Most of the time these things will be running in the background and you won't even know it. Smart contracts are nothing more than if/then statements and can be done without any type of human intervention. The transactions need to be validated and that's where the value of the coin comes in to play. Not only that but the chains are immutable so nothing can be fudged. There is an honest record and accounting of everything.

No they won't. The only contracts that can be written with a bunch of if/then statements are ones that are completely trivial, like swapping shitcoins for shitcoins. Real world contracts all have some grey area of interpretation and have the court system as a backdrop. Try writing a rental agreement as a smart contract. Impossible. In fact, smart contracts for something as a sports bet are already incredibly difficult to write. What if there's a power outage at the stadium? Terrorist attack? Which website to use for the score? What if the website has the score wrong? You can't account for all contingencies.

There is basically no contract in the real world that can be collapsed to code. There are always contingencies/unforeseen consequences/etc. that are usually resolved between the parties but always have the court system in the background as the final decision maker.

As for Helium, I've known about it for years. Yet... why do you need a token to incentive people to share their wifi with the Helium network? You could just pay them in USD.

Besides BTC and maybe AI coins, it's all smoke and mirrors just like NFTs. Totally worthless.

 

[jjgold]

Coins will never go anywhere, but a trading vehicle. They have really no use to this day in daily financial transactions.

security is a major issue. It’s so easy to steal coins if you’re a high-level programmer.

The rich get richer with long-term stock, market investing, and tremendous real estate portfolio

 

[raiders72001]

No they won't. The only contracts that can be written with a bunch of if/then statements are ones that are completely trivial, like swapping shitcoins for shitcoins. Real world contracts all have some grey area of interpretation and have the court system as a backdrop. Try writing a rental agreement as a smart contract. Impossible. In fact, smart contracts for something as a sports bet are already incredibly difficult to write. What if there's a power outage at the stadium? Terrorist attack? Which website to use for the score? What if the website has the score wrong? You can't account for all contingencies.

There is basically no contract in the real world that can be collapsed to code. There are always contingencies/unforeseen consequences/etc. that are usually resolved between the parties but always have the court system in the background as the final decision maker.

As for Helium, I've known about it for years. Yet... why do you need a token to incentive people to share their wifi with the Helium network? You could just pay them in USD.

Besides BTC and maybe AI coins, it's all smoke and mirrors just like NFTs. Totally worthless.

You are pigeon holing smart contracts. It doesn't have to be some financial transaction. They are used in gaming. The whole purpose of smart contracts is to run things without human intervention.

If there's an outage, the whole grid goes down now as it is. Everything is done electronically. Almost all financial transactions are done electronically but crypto cuts out the middle man. It makes no difference to the court if I pay someone in cash or credit card. The only thing crypto does is cut out the bank when dealing electronically.

With Helium it's not just the rewards, it's allowing wireless peer to peer communication. With the rewards once again you cut out the use of a bank to make the transaction.

 

[raiders72001]

And why are AI coins different? I think it's going to hit this cycle too because it's a buzzword but no different than any other coin. Unless it's sentient, AI coins are the same as all coins.

We will never cut out humans since there are times where intervention is needed, as you said, but crypto curtails the need for humans which saves money.

You think ETH is useless?

 

[raiders72001]

Solana is brilliant in what they've been doing. The airdrops are building a community. The phones were $599 but they were giving out BONK worth more than the SAGA phones at the time if you bought a phone.

The phone plan is $20/month unlimited but it slows down after a certain point in usage. I'm waiting for feedback from others before trying that.

 

[raiders72001]

 

[rolandcorts]

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I always put forward my view and look to see if someone has a reasonable argument against it, but no one seems to have reasonable rebuttals. I hate banks and government and would love to see more p2p in all sorts of markets that can't be controlled by banks/government. That was the origin story of crypto. I was hopeful for ETH to lead to smart contracts in betting which might have led to some great increases in liquidity, reduced juice, etc.

None of it materialized. And it won't. Because you need human intervention in contracts. You cannot specify all contingencies in code. As I said already, a smart contract for a bet is completely trivial and yet to code it is impossible.

How would the code have handled the last U.S. election? Even the books took many different approaches to grading.
How would the code have handled the weird cancellations/date changes to NFL games during Covid?
Could come up with 1000 more examples.

So if smart contracts are not possible beyond absolutely trivial swapping coin transactions, then what value is left for ETH? As a currency like BTC (then BTC is way better)? As a mechanism for NFTs within video games? Come on..

Summary: p2p not happening in contracts. Impossible. Need a 3rd party/central party (i.e. courts, arbitrator). (Not to mention many of these coins are even controlled by 3rd parties. Wtf is with that? It is so disgustingly anti-crypto in its original vision.)
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BTC had potential but never materialized as a medium of exchange and looks like it never will. You still need a centralized entity to convert it from/to fiat to purchase real goods/services. It's a store of value like gold, still has a pretty good use case as it is truly p2p and has advantages over its alternatives like BCH,LTC, so in that space it should always be king. I am still a fan but pessimistic.

Summary: decent p2p (for gambling, to hide from govt, for semi-anonymous transacting) but ultimately you need a centralized on/off ramp to spend it on something real.
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For Helium, you never explained why a token is necessary to incentivize people to share their wifi with their network. You just say "it allows wireless p2p communication". Does it? Helium is the central party organizing everything. They set the rules for how users/suppliers pay and are compensated. They don't really need a token; they could just have everyone set up an account linked to their bank acct or debit card or paypal.

Another central/3rd party needed. Feels like p2p but isn't.
---
For AI, I don't know. I'm just guessing. Seems possible, in contrast to the others that have been around for awhile now and to me are huge failures like ETH.

 

[raiders72001]

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. I always put forward my view and look to see if someone has a reasonable argument against it, but no one seems to have reasonable rebuttals. I hate banks and government and would love to see more p2p in all sorts of markets that can't be controlled by banks/government. That was the origin story of crypto. I was hopeful for ETH to lead to smart contracts in betting which might have led to some great increases in liquidity, reduced juice, etc.

None of it materialized. And it won't. Because you need human intervention in contracts. You cannot specify all contingencies in code. As I said already, a smart contract for a bet is completely trivial and yet to code it is impossible.

How would the code have handled the last U.S. election? Even the books took many different approaches to grading.
How would the code have handled the weird cancellations/date changes to NFL games during Covid?
Could come up with 1000 more examples.

So if smart contracts are not possible beyond absolutely trivial swapping coin transactions, then what value is left for ETH? As a currency like BTC (then BTC is way better)? As a mechanism for NFTs within video games? Come on..

Summary: p2p not happening in contracts. Impossible. Need a 3rd party/central party (i.e. courts, arbitrator). (Not to mention many of these coins are even controlled by 3rd parties. Wtf is with that? It is so disgustingly anti-crypto in its original vision.)
--
BTC had potential but never materialized as a medium of exchange and looks like it never will. You still need a centralized entity to convert it from/to fiat to purchase real goods/services. It's a store of value like gold, still has a pretty good use case as it is truly p2p and has advantages over its alternatives like BCH,LTC, so in that space it should always be king. I am still a fan but pessimistic.

Summary: decent p2p (for gambling, to hide from govt, for semi-anonymous transacting) but ultimately you need a centralized on/off ramp to spend it on something real.
--
For Helium, you never explained why a token is necessary to incentivize people to share their wifi with their network. You just say "it allows wireless p2p communication". Does it? Helium is the central party organizing everything. They set the rules for how users/suppliers pay and are compensated. They don't really need a token; they could just have everyone set up an account linked to their bank acct or debit card or paypal.

Another central/3rd party needed. Feels like p2p but isn't.
---
For AI, I don't know. I'm just guessing. Seems possible, in contrast to the others that have been around for awhile now and to me are huge failures like ETH.

The blockchain alone is a game changer. The record cannot be changed. Produce is being shipped and a record is kept of it's exact location and temperature at all times. It can't be changed. It'll become vital in medical use.

No one is saying that all human intervention is completely cut off. That's impossible since it can't be foolproof. Smart contracts can cut out the middleman 99% of the time, not all the time.

From day 1 I said that it will never work in sports betting because of bad lines, time changes or all of the other problems that can occur but smart contracts are changing the world.

 

[raiders72001]

With the US elections if the votes were done on a blockchain, then the results would be legit. If money transferred to Ukraine was on a blockchain, there would be a record of exactly where it went.

 

[martinhop]

LET's Go!!!

 

[martinhop]

With the US elections if the votes were done on a blockchain, then the results would be legit. If money transferred to Ukraine was on a blockchain, there would be a record of exactly where it went.

Would be curious to read your reply to 'Helium 'pretending to be a p2p platform'

 

[martinhop]

Especially a week after another centralized company in a decentralized environment got exploited (Ledger)

 

[raiders72001]

It could tale

Especially a week after another centralized company in a decentralized environment got exploited (Ledger)

People are conflating issues. Helium is a business, that's centralized. Data is being transferred peer to peer.

All these companies such as SOL claiming to be decentralized are centralized. It's all centralized to some degree, some a lot more than others.

That doesn't mean that smart contracts aren't going to change the world since it is changing the world right now.

 

[raiders72001]

Some try to hide it through DAOs but no one is buying it when a company holds 60% of the coins. I think the SOL Foundation holds about 40% but I'm not sure.

 

[raiders72001]

I could see BONK top 20 in a year.

 

[raiders72001]

I could see Helium being very popular. They make a ton of mistakes but keep learning along the way. SAGA phone sales were a bust the first time around. The second time they sold out immediately. Long term HNT may be better than MOBILE. People will dump rewards sooner or later.

 

[Ace7550]

With the US elections if the votes were done on a blockchain, then the results would be legit. If money transferred to Ukraine was on a blockchain, there would be a record of exactly where it went.

Wouldn't that be nice...

 

[Ace7550]

Many great things about the invention of the blockchain. Transparency maybe the greatest.

 

[raiders72001]

 

[raiders72001]

Hoping for a marketing war to get pub.