Betwws

[barryflemmingwc]

No mention of Bonus Arbitrage and a refund if you lose of course.

Incorrect. We have yet to seize anyone's entire balance without pay. Worst case scenario the individual is sent back all previous deposits regardless of winning or losing and current. We understand that when players do this, the majority of the funds in the account aren't even profit. Hence why we aren't looking to hurt anyone financially. However, unless he wants to post his wager activity, I cannot share another players wagers on the public forums.

On a side note, there's a difference between betting on a random game you know nothing about, and risking $5,000-$10,000 on a soft line multiple times on European soccer, and then claim you know nothing about the game or teams you are betting on, after you started the meeting off by claiming you've been betting a lot of soccer for the past few years and are a big fan of Arsenal and other teams but could not name a single player on the teams.

I encourage those of you participating in Odds Jam, Bonus Arbing, and Multi Accounting to save it for the bigger books. We are looking to provide a fun and positive experience with above average bonuses for people looking to have fun. Win and lose. Not people such as Mr. Daniel who ring up a $20,000 balance betting soft lines on European Soccer, then complain when we take a look at what's going on. For the record, the mathematical chance of Mr. Daniel's wagers to be strictly luck and not arbing is less than 0.5%. And we reach that number by plugging all of his wagers into multiple different AI programs.

Thank you for your continued support and you should be seeing many updates from players within the next week of receiving payouts. Along with what's already been posted.

Warmest regards,

Barry Flemming

 

[dg1986]

Incorrect. We have yet to seize anyone's entire balance without pay. Worst case scenario the individual is sent back all previous deposits regardless of winning or losing and current. We understand that when players do this, the majority of the funds in the account aren't even profit. Hence why we aren't looking to hurt anyone financially. However, unless he wants to post his wager activity, I cannot share another players wagers on the public forums.

On a side note, there's a difference between betting on a random game you know nothing about, and risking $5,000-$10,000 on a soft line multiple times on European soccer, and then claim you know nothing about the game or teams you are betting on, after you started the meeting off by claiming you've been betting a lot of soccer for the past few years and are a big fan of Arsenal and other teams but could not name a single player on the teams.

I encourage those of you participating in Odds Jam, Bonus Arbing, and Multi Accounting to save it for the bigger books. We are looking to provide a fun and positive experience with above average bonuses for people looking to have fun. Win and lose. Not people such as Mr. Daniel who ring up a $20,000 balance betting soft lines on European Soccer, then complain when we take a look at what's going on. For the record, the mathematical chance of Mr. Daniel's wagers to be strictly luck and not arbing is less than 0.5%. And we reach that number by plugging all of his wagers into multiple different AI programs.

Thank you for your continued support and you should be seeing many updates from players within the next week of receiving payouts. Along with what's already been posted.

Warmest regards,

Barry Flemming

You are a liar, I never bet anywhere close to 10k on a soccer match, The limits on your site wouldn't even allow that large of a bet so you're clearly lying. I believe the max I ever bet on soccer was 3k and that was maybe 2-3 times at most. I bet a few games on soccer, the rest were NBA for the most part. I fully cooperated with you and answered all of your questions. You proceeded to try and taunt me and catch me in a lie which you were unable to do. You then tried questioning me on my employment history from 20 years ago after you apparently tried to investigate me ( can't even a make this up). You were also looking up my home and claimed you had my social security number which I of course never provided you. Absolutely insane behavior. What is happening is very simple, your book can't pay people but you want to try and continue to operate so you're looking for excuses to not pay customers out so you can claim you're still a legit book and hope others will still play on your site.

 

[djefferis]

So NOW the picture is beginning to clear up for me as to the no pays with WWS.

The most recent post just confirm my suspicions here - bonus whores took the place down - and in their efforts to keep the party going they paid them for too long. Possibly due to lack of proper controls - possibly due to simple greed.

It’s funny - no one cries “bonus whore” when your losing thousands - but string together a couple of wins and suddenly everyone’s a sharp.

Don’t get me wrong - I 100% believe WWS here regarding the wagering patterns - but its simple on the books end - you either curtail your offerings or you get more selective of your clientele. No reasonable operator takes all depositors and allows them the wager thousands on “niche” sports. Worse - when you have a bettor who lives in Iowa trying to get down a couple of dimes on German Handball at 3:30AM in their time zone - maybe you flag that account and suspend wagering until you can have a little chat about their activity. If they refuse - fine, decline the business - if they are clear of a rollover let them know the account will be closed and future activity tied to them risk void due to fraud and pay/close the account. If there’s a rollover - it’s either take your stake back plus winnings at whatever amount of roll completed (for example 50% if they are midway through roll) or agreeing to complete the roll with REASONABLE limits and main sports leagues only - no niche bets and phone in bets only.

Hanging a soft line isn’t the players fault- playing at a book is a one sided agreement - either the player accepts what the book is offering or they don’t. Players don’t have the ability to “negotiate” offerings - only bonus or limits. Most bonus books set your limit at 50% of deposit amount - if the book allowed players to bet more than 100% of the initial deposit after running it up a couple of times - that’s on them.

Player syndicates/collusion to circumvent limits is widespread. AI just makes it so even relatively unsophisticated cheats can now hit a book faster than ever before. Crying foul on the books end about this is akin to complaining about the rampant crime after being robbed - despite not locking your damn doors. You know going in there are plenty of bad actors out there - but failing to take preventative measures to stop 90% of them is on YOU. But as I said - no one cries foul until the player wins…in a pure arbitrage play situation- there’s a losing side too - and oddly the book on that side consistently seems perfectly content to allow such play. It’s not until the player goes on a streak the wrong way that it’s a problem.

 

[baus]

Barry should spend less time on zoom and more time paying people.

BAUS

 

[djefferis]

But its easier to cry foul and play victim than it is to pay - especially when it was YOUR job to protect the book from bonus abusers/syndicate members and others who found an edge abusing soft lines.

Every time I see that argument raised by a book - "customer took advantage of our soft lines" - I have the same reaction - HOW IS THIS THE CUSTOMERS FAULT ?!? You posted the line, you accepted the customer money - all the player did was do what they obviously were going to do after posting up - they made a bet.

It's not like the line was +100 everywhere and you put up +1000 in error - you just posted a +120 and the customer pounded it for limits. Burn me once - shame on them...but if a customer is routinely playing max limits and you're not monitoring their play - shame on you.

 

[ggzola]

This thread has turned very entertaining, informative, and a plot twist with the line-ups manifest requirements!

 

[Ace7550]

This thread has turned very entertaining, informative, and a plot twist with the line-ups manifest requirements!

Strange saga for sure.

 

[baus]

But its easier to cry foul and play victim than it is to pay - especially when it was YOUR job to protect the book from bonus abusers/syndicate members and others who found an edge abusing soft lines.

Every time I see that argument raised by a book - "customer took advantage of our soft lines" - I have the same reaction - HOW IS THIS THE CUSTOMERS FAULT ?!? You posted the line, you accepted the customer money - all the player did was do what they obviously were going to do after posting up - they made a bet.

It's not like the line was +100 everywhere and you put up +1000 in error - you just posted a +120 and the customer pounded it for limits. Burn me once - shame on them...but if a customer is routinely playing max limits and you're not monitoring their play - shame on you.

Yes. If you aren’t really sure how to book, then don’t book.

If these guys don’t clear up the outstanding payments quickly they’re done.

$500 a week doesn’t cut it. That demonstrates a wee-wee bankroll.

BAUS

 

[Ace7550]

Kindly requesting that sharp players choose a different sportsbook is like kindly requesting that lions stop hunting antelope.

 

[garyking63]

I deposited there a few times and (fortunately?) lost. Wouldn't risk depositing now for sure after all the bad reviews. Not sure how any book can stay in business once the no pay reviews begin.

 

[thegreatestgatsby]

I deposited there a few times and (fortunately?) lost. Wouldn't risk depositing now for sure after all the bad reviews. Not sure how any book can stay in business once the no pay reviews begin.

I haven't seen to many "bad" reviews per say. People are just want to be paid. Honestly if they magically paid everybody today, I'd give them a little leeway on the whole hacking deal.

 

[garyking63]

I don't know if there can be a worse review than people not getting paid. Would I deposit if everybody suddenly got paid? Maybe not, it's hard enough to win betting sports without having to worry about being paid. if I do take a bonus like that and try to arb I make damn sure I try and lose the bets at the less reputable site.

 

[BigJay]

I got a good call from (Barry) of their risk management team. He verified who I was and my betting habits. He went on to say they would be paying me although not in one lump sum but would likely advise against taking more action from me.
I had good luck with this book and liked their connections. I have no problem with them showing me the door if they are upright and complete the payouts. All in all a positive happening for players waiting to be paid.

Good evening Daniel,
We appreciate you taking the time to engage with us, and we want to start by acknowledging that our goal is never to create a negative experience for any of our players. Our priority is to maintain a fair and transparent environment for all users.

After a thorough review, your account was found to be involved in clear patterns consistent with bonus arbitrage, which is a direct violation of our Terms of Service. As you’re aware, we reached out in good faith to provide an opportunity for clarification and offered a chance to verify your understanding of the wagers placed, particularly those involving significant amounts on European soccer matches.

Unfortunately, instead of cooperating with our reasonable requests, the discussion became unproductive, and we were unable to gather the necessary information to move forward confidently. It’s important to note that in similar cases, other players have been forthcoming, acknowledged the issue, and as a result, were still paid—often with only a warning issued.

We want to emphasize that our intention is never to withhold funds unfairly. Even in cases involving misuse, our approach is often to resolve the issue, educate the player, and take preventative measures moving forward. However, a lack of cooperation makes that process extremely difficult.
Our accounting team will be reaching out with the final resolution soon. We appreciate your understanding and hope we can work toward a more constructive path in the future.
Sincerely,
[Barry Flemming]

Let me get this straight - in order to get paid by WWS a bettor will need to hold a zoom call?

And during this call, the bettor must be able to list some athletes that play for teams the bettor has previously wagered on?

If this is the case, how many athletes are required to be listed? For a baseball team is 5 hitters and 3 pitchers enough? A soccer team is 4 players enough?

BAUS

 

[houseofpayne09]

The place had solid reviews and seemed to be gaining momentum why not just close the accounts and pay everyone? Soft lines still need to win...the bets were taken and were not past posted it seems like.

 

[djefferis]

For the record, the mathematical chance of Mr. Daniel's wagers to be strictly luck and not arbing is less than 0.5%.

 

[nasios]

I don't want to support any side here. I just try to get the big image and give my own perspectives.
What I suspect is that dg1986 might shown some aggressiveness on the questions he had to answer.
He might felt he got iterrogated. My simple point here is dg1986 "you don't have the cards" xD. You may hold a big balance in this place and you want to get paid. Show some good willingness and faith and try to let them know what kind of questions made you annoyed - always in a calm texture.

In any case, I don't support that kind of questions made by BWWS and they shouldn't felt exploited by their soft lines. All bookies have soft lines even the giant ones.
I clearly support that a bookie shall take his actions prior and not after a player's balance gets high. And there are many actions which can be taken. I try to break it down:

1. Move your lines depending on the betting volume and player's profile => it helps sharpening the lines
2. Eliminate the stake size for sharp players to a reasonable and playable amount so you keep them welcome
3. Maintain/increase the stake size for the recreational ones.

Okay, achieving the point 1. may require a good network of people (high liquidity) and an advanced software. It's when you are a sharp bookie. The real sharp bookies may be less than the fingers of one hand.
Moving to the point 2 and 3. I can count a few bookies - I wish they were more - adhering to this bussiness model such as BOL, betus, bettorsden, topwager365 maybe and more. The advantages are:
i. You buy in a very cheap price valueable information in which direction to move your lines
ii. You build a strong reputation for you brand. Instead of wasting millions of dollars in sponsoring teams, advertisements and campaigns, you simply accept all players - winners and losers - and then the product starts being advertised alone in the forums and everywhere appealing more players - many recreationals among them.
It's important even for a recreational player to know he has put his money in a safe place. It's a fact, they can even hit a hot winning streak and they want be sure they get paid. A place which pays the pros is more than safe for them.

We want to see more places like BOL which I think is following this model to the top level. It is not a trully sharp bookie but allows sharp action to some extent. And we see now how highly is BOL rated and respected by all posters.

I don't want to be super strict with this new place, they look honest, they make mistakes though. I wish they find out how to operate their shop in a smooth and profitable way. Don't want to see an other crap soft idiot bookie. The future will show us, I don't even know how it will envolve.

For the record, I got paid once again.

 

[btcfan]

I honestly hate when a book cries like this. You offer large bonuses and don't expect the OJ crew to be there trying to arb to roll the free money? Of course they are. Offer a responsible bonus if you don't want that action. Sorry, they brought that on themselves. Poor management in so many ways.

I wouldn't doubt that was what happened to Nitro. They had some amazing lines to pick off with their "premium lines feed" (I think that is what BAS called them as they had that odds feed when they had multiple lines available), which means likely those were great for arbing and they offered 100% cash. Probably why they are now shit as well.

Can't have it both ways, but they can...simple enough to just say FU to payouts and go open up a new shop.

 

[ggzola]

Isn't anyone getting paid from this website? Still? Weeks and months have passed

 

[nasios]

Isn't anyone getting paid from this website? Still? Weeks and months have passed

I have been paid twice and Miz paid once.
Did you read anything before you post?

 

[BigJay]

Isn't anyone getting paid from this website? Still? Weeks and months have passed

Sounds like only a very select few at this point

Charles Ponzi - Wikipedia

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