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✔️Billy Walters: "The offshore world’s going to be bigger than ever.”

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Wagerallsports

Wagerallsports

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DraftKings surcharge sparks concern about future of sports betting​

LV REVIEW JOURNAL SUBSCTIPTION

DraftKings’ plan to add a surcharge to winning wagers in states with high sports betting tax rates was one of the main talking points at Bet Bash, a sports betting networking conference that took place this week at Circa.

DraftKings CEO Jason Robins announced Aug. 1 that, starting next year, the sportsbook giant, which doesn’t operate in Nevada, will deduct a 3.2 percent gaming tax surcharge from winning wagers in Illinois, which recently raised taxes on sports betting from 15 percent to 40 percent.

That means a bettor who places a traditional straight bet of $11 to win $10 would make only $9.68 under the plan, which was panned by pro bettors and bookmakers alike at Bet Bash.

“If any living human bets in a place where DraftKings is taking 3.2 percent off the winnings, you’re out of your (expletive) mind,” longtime professional bettor Alan “Boston” Dvorkis said during a seminar. “Don’t do it. You’re not going to win. I don’t care how good you are. There’s no living human that can overcome that.”

Bettors must win 52.4 percent of their wagers to turn a profit against a -110 price. Under the new surcharge, which equates to -114, gamblers would have to win 53.3 percent of their wagers to make a profit.

Going back offshore

“What they’re doing now, as far as what they’re charging people, they’re just going to drive people right back to the offshore (sportsbooks),” said Billy Walters, regarded as the most successful sports bettor of all time. “That’s all they’re going to do. The offshore world’s going to be bigger than ever.”

DraftKings plans to add surcharges in states with rates over 20 percent, which currently includes Illinois, Pennsylvania, Vermont and New York, which is at 51 percent. Nevada’s tax rate is 6.75 percent.

The high tax rates in other states, planned surcharges and other sportsbook practices, such as limiting winning bettors, have longtime Las Vegas bookmakers and bettors concerned about the future of the industry six years after the Supreme Court struck down the federal ban on sports betting.

“Everybody’s kind of lost this deal,” Walters said. “The politicians supposedly did this for the citizens. They wanted to give them a legal, lawful place to bet where there was no criminal element and taxes and jobs could be created, yet people were going to be treated fairly.

“What’s happened is they’ve allowed a monopoly to get created, and when you’ve got a monopoly, the only person that wins is the person that’s got the monopoly.”

FanDuel and DraftKings account for a combined 67 percent of the U.S. sportsbook market share, according to consulting firm Eilers & Krejcik Gaming.

‘The Nevada way’

South Point sportsbook director Chris Andrews and Gaughan Gaming sportsbook director Vinny Magliulo spoke in separate seminars about how the traditional Nevada model of bookmaking compares to the rest of the country.

“The bettor and bookmaker relationship should be one of mutual respect. It should not be adversarial,” Magliulo said. “And if a bettor is successful, then you tip your cap and you pay him. If customers don’t win sometimes, you’re not going to have any business.

“Don’t feel bad for the bookmaker. Nobody listens when the bookmaker cries, including the bookmaker’s grandmother, because she might be on the other side anyway.”

After sports betting was legalized across the country, Andrews took umbrage at the assertion by some foreign operators that the Nevada model of bookmaking was outdated and that Nevada books’ average hold, or win percentage — which has averaged 5.77 percent the last six years — should be closer to 10 percent.

“I like the Nevada way. We deal a very fair number,” he said. “They’re trying to tell us Nevada kind of doesn’t know what we’re doing. … I remember one guy saying the Nevada model is not sustainable. Well, I’ve been doing this since the ’70s. That’s six decades.”

Walters said it’s largely up to state gaming regulators to keep operators in check.

“If they don’t do something to step in on behalf of the betting public, this thing here is headed for a bad ending,” he said. “What worries me is the way the general customer is being treated by these sportsbook operators. But they can’t do these things if regulators don’t allow them to do it.

“If you’ve got a business, you can run it any way you want to. But these are privileged licenses. There’s a big difference. And if you don’t believe it, just ask the regulators in Nevada and ask the casinos there. They tell them every day what they can do and can’t do.”
 

quantumleap

quantumleap

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"DraftKings CEO Jason Robins announced Aug. 1 that, starting next year, the sportsbook giant, which doesn’t operate in Nevada, will deduct a 3.2 percent gaming tax surcharge from winning wagers in Illinois, which recently raised taxes on sports betting from 15 percent to 40 percent."

They're just trying to give people a reason to move out of state, aren't they?

The whole taxing on gambling winnings is a farce. You have to pay when you win but you can't deduct when you lose.
 

mralar16

mralar16

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Sep 13, 2022
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Pardon me but anyone who thinks they have a 'good enough product' to just jack up prices like this, deserve to lose half the market share. Social media backlash should be brutal. I hope it gets much worse for DK before shareholders - not poor people by any means - get their heads out of their asses.
 

crusherrr

crusherrr

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Nov 5, 2021
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I disagree that offshore will recover. I HOPE that it does, truly. I don't believe surcharges alone will be enough to bring offshore back. Many states are also going after offshores. I know my state(CT) already sent a C&D Letter to stop serving players from CT.

I've seen some industry guys that are even smarter than me say that DK is doing this because most of their customers are too dumb to leave or too loyal already. The ones who will leave are the ones that they don't want to serve as customers anyways.
 

quantumleap

quantumleap

Joined
Apr 10, 2022
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3,668
I disagree that offshore will recover. I HOPE that it does, truly. I don't believe surcharges alone will be enough to bring offshore back. Many states are also going after offshores. I know my state(CT) already sent a C&D Letter to stop serving players from CT.

I've seen some industry guys that are even smarter than me say that DK is doing this because most of their customers are too dumb to leave or too loyal already. The ones who will leave are the ones that they don't want to serve as customers anyways.
Yeah, there are a lot of dumb gamblers out there. The reason Vegas casinos can offer 6:5 blackjack is because people are stupid enough to play it.
 

KVB

KVB

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Apr 11, 2023
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DraftKings’ plan to add a surcharge to winning wagers in states with high sports betting tax rates was one of the main talking points at Bet Bash, a sports betting networking conference that took place this week at Circa.

Geeezus, un fucking real these fukkers.

Like I said all along, from years ago, these are not bookmakers, they are advertising companies and now in order to pay their taxes they're passing the buck on to the consumer.

What in the actual Fukk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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KVB

KVB

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I always said, back at SBR before it was legal, to get ready for -115 lines.

That's the only way DK and FD can pay the states.

Sure, we saw -115 and then it knocked down a bit, -110, which is tolerable.

Now they want to tax the player in house on the winnings? Why not just charge -120?

This was always a certainty with these advertisers as they spent hundreds of millions, to the tune of billions, to get licensed and to operate.

It's a fukkin travesty for the industry if you ask me.
 

KVB

KVB

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Messages
12,590
“If any living human bets in a place where DraftKings is taking 3.2 percent off the winnings, you’re out of your (expletive) mind,” longtime professional bettor Alan “Boston” Dvorkis said during a seminar. “Don’t do it. You’re not going to win. I don’t care how good you are. There’s no living human that can overcome that.”

I agree with this and we deal with margins around and inside the 3% mark all the fukkin time.

Now DK wants to take that away? That's the end of an industry for many of us, especially those of us with reach across books across the state.

Fukk!!!!!!!!!
 

KVB

KVB

Joined
Apr 11, 2023
Messages
12,590
“If they don’t do something to step in on behalf of the betting public, this thing here is headed for a bad ending,” he said. “What worries me is the way the general customer is being treated by these sportsbook operators. But they can’t do these things if regulators don’t allow them to do it.

“If you’ve got a business, you can run it any way you want to. But these are privileged licenses. There’s a big difference. And if you don’t believe it, just ask the regulators in Nevada and ask the casinos there. They tell them every day what they can do and can’t do.”

Amen, brother.
 

KVB

KVB

Joined
Apr 11, 2023
Messages
12,590
Fuuuuukkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk!

I'm fukking livid if they do this.

Why not just up the prices and collect it through the vig? Why? Because the price doesn't look appetizing. So instead, they want to hide the taxe of 3.2% because most bettors don't have a clue that it means close to -115 anyway.

Maybe it's time for a video on caculating margins, so everyone can see just how devious they are trying to be.

I'm fukkin livid right now and about to get on the phone to a dozen states and start screaming in my team's ears.

Fuuuuuukkkkkkkkkkkkk!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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